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Best heads for tom volume.....
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Poster Best heads for tom volume.....
StillKickinIt

Poopeye



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Joined: Jan 17, 2005
Location: Orygun - The Beaver State - USA
No. 1 Posted on Sep 26, 2013 7:42 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Hey folks....for a long time now I've been using clear pinstripes for tom batter heads with clear (ambassadors?)for resonant heads with no muffler execept for a moongel patch.
In the past I went for a deeper, darker sound but lately have tuned them up for more tone.

But I'm just not satisfied with the volume or tone and wonder if it's the heads or something else. Even mic'd up, they don't seem to carry or project like I think they should. (early 70's Gretsch maple shells)

After seeing a lot of folks on youtube using coated heads, I'm wondering if switching to coated heads would help with both volume and tone.

Like the powerstroke series or Ambassador X or something.

Looking for experience based opinions on what I might need here. Thanks in advance.



Kick me...beat me....hit me with sticks....
pwc





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Location: Pattaya, Thailand
No. 2 Posted on Sep 26, 2013 8:37 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I personally think that Pinstripes with additional moon-gel muffling is never likely to give you what is needed. Pinstripes alone or Coated Ambassadors with or without moon-gel would be my way to go and then experiment with reso heads tighter or looser once batter heads are at the tension you like.


Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
StillKickinIt

Poopeye



Posts: 1983
Joined: Jan 17, 2005
Location: Orygun - The Beaver State - USA
No. 3 Posted on Sep 26, 2013 10:19 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Yeah, I've always been a partial purist about muffling using nothing, or very little, on my toms. But with tightening the batters a bit for tone, they rang too much for mic'ing.

I refuse to tape ANY thing to ANY of my drums so found moongel to be very adaptable since you can place it anywhere on the head for minimal or maximum muffling.

But then I was out front watching three....yes..three other guys playing my drums and just was not impressed with the sound of my toms...or at least they didn't sound like I wanted them to.

My bass (kick) is another matter.....perfect. Big Smile and my snare is sounding great. Just need to play with my toms more....especially the 12" and 13".



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technique2012





Posts: 281
Joined: Aug 11, 2012
Location: Illinois, USA
No. 4 Posted on Sep 26, 2013 2:25 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
If you're going for tone, then go Fiberskyn 3. And even though this is a Remo forum, I recommend any Evans 360 batter head, as well.


"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple."
-Charles Mingus
Andy





Posts: 1720
Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Location: Rockford, MI
No. 5 Posted on Sep 26, 2013 3:37 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
A while back, I used a coated ambassador on a 14" floor tom and was actually quite impressed with the tone I got out of it. After many years with Pinstripes and the like, the coated ambassador gave a pretty good sound - maybe not as deep as a pinstripe, but with less of that "plasticy" sound of the stick smacking the head. Plus, you get more resonance and I think even more tuning range.

I'm using pinstripes and the Evans and Aquarian equivalents now but coated ambassadors are a close second.




StillKickinIt

Poopeye



Posts: 1983
Joined: Jan 17, 2005
Location: Orygun - The Beaver State - USA
No. 6 Posted on Sep 26, 2013 3:52 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Tone yes, but also for more projection (volume)

Thanks guys.



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OldFart

Mapex



Posts: 6666
Joined: Apr 2, 2007
Location: Peoria, AZ
No. 7 Posted on Sep 28, 2013 9:25 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Hey Greg -

I've found that the pairing of a 12 and 13 to be a little more difficult to get reasonable separation in both Tone and a good Responsiveness (in other words, where there seems to be a clear step between the drums).

One not being right on the mark tends, to my ear, to affect the perception of the other. That aspect might be in play also (even though they might be tuned properly).

But to get a rounder sound without self-defeating muffling, I employ Pitch Bend on the Reso head. Many people don't want to use that since it does degrade the projection slightly - but might be useful when mic'ing your kit.

I've been using another brand's equivalent of a Coated Ambassador for both Batter and Reso; however, it works well with an uncoated Ambassador reso.

You Tension both Batter and Reso to get full resonance. Then take one lug on the Reso side only and detune it slightly (it only seems to require a partial turn).

Gretsch had at one time a Round-over bearing edge on their kits. Not sure they still did that in the 70's, but I'm almost positive they didn't use a double-cut, sharp bearing edge those years - so your toms will likely require less pitch bend to get unmuffled heads to respond to your liking. Those Gretsch shells seem to do most of the work.

This is intended to help; I hope it works for you.

I remember ... yours is a very cool kit.



Mapex Saturn * Paiste
Terry Bozzio Single-Ply Coated
StillKickinIt

Poopeye



Posts: 1983
Joined: Jan 17, 2005
Location: Orygun - The Beaver State - USA
No. 8 Posted on Oct 3, 2013 6:57 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Thanks Randy!

Interesting concept worth playing with.

I seem to have pretty good separation of tone between the two but the 12 just doesn't have as rich a tone as the 13 for some reason. I was thinking about taking it to this local fellow that can true up the bearing edges in case that is part of the issue. I dunno.....it just has always been difficult to tune. No issues with the 13, 16, snare or bass.

So, of all the new fangled coated heads available, what would work bestest??

I read some or most of the Remo product pages for coated heads and seems the Powerstroke or X series mention projection as a characteristic. But I hate shelling out money to experiment only to be disappointed.

Guess I should ask the Remo gods directly!! Big Smile

Thanks for your input Randy.
I really love my kit.....except for that pesky 12" tom!!



Kick me...beat me....hit me with sticks....
StillKicken





Posts: 2327
Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Location: Buda, Texas
No. 9 Posted on Oct 6, 2013 8:34 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
StillKickinIt wrote:
But with tightening the batters a bit for tone, they rang too much for mic'ing.

But then I was out front watching three....yes..three other guys playing my drums and just was not impressed with the sound of my toms...or at least they didn't sound like I wanted them to.


I agree with Pete; changing the tension of the bottom head should shorten the duration of the tone and may make it easier for mic'ing. (????)

What was it about the sound from out front you didn't like. Was it too muffled, too high or low pitch or separation of tone between drums?

If it's too muffled raise the height maybe two inches if that's not too high. I did that Saturday and it made a nice difference; I did get a chance to hear my drums from out front for three songs.

I'm also using electronic tuners now and that helps me a lot with tom tone separation. I'm tuning them in thirds now and I'm also tuning both heads to the same note for maximum resonance in my situation.

Type heads for volume and tone; I'm not sure, I think I would use Coated Ambassador although I'm now using a Renaissance batter on my snare and that thing can get loud. I have no idea how they would sound on toms. I don't believe they will ring as long, they have a shouter snap on the snare.

Fiberskyn3's on my toms have a nice warm tone as well as the Fiberskyn3 PS3 on bass but I don't think they will be as loud as Coated Ambassador.

sherm



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System

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