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Poster Two topics: Heads and Sticks
SnareNumber4

Music > Life



Posts: 12
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Location: Barberton, Ohio
No. 1 Posted on Feb 22, 2013 5:46 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Do you prefer using single headed toms, or double headed toms?

Personally I prefer single headed, but I just got a new Pearl Soundcheck. (My old kit had the bottom hoops missing, but it was free)

What size/brand of sticks do you prefer?

I'm not picky with brands, but I can almost only use 5A's or the like. For me color is cooler, especially something different. But not TOO different, I had a pair of 'firestix' which are basically all nylon light up sticks, and they were horrible.



technique2012





Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 11, 2012
Location: Illinois, USA
No. 2 Posted on Feb 22, 2013 9:07 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I usually play Dave Weckl Evolutions or Jojo Mayer Signatures. But I can easily still play 5a and 5b.


"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple."
-Charles Mingus
technique2012





Posts: 272
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Location: Illinois, USA
No. 3 Posted on Feb 23, 2013 3:22 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
SnareNumber4 wrote:
But not TOO different, I had a pair of 'firestix' which are basically all nylon light up sticks, and they were horrible.

Yeah, I've heard those things are terrible. They look quite flimsy, too.



"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple."
-Charles Mingus
OldFart

Mapex



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Location: Peoria, AZ
No. 4 Posted on Feb 23, 2013 3:40 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I found I like A sizes best; so 5A and 7A.

Even isolating those two, there are still a number of variations. I've played pretty much all the commonly available brands, but I've been partial to Vater in recent years.



Mapex Saturn * Paiste
Terry Bozzio Single-Ply Coated
StillKicken





Posts: 2315
Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Location: Buda, Texas
No. 5 Posted on Feb 23, 2013 6:31 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I never really liked some single headed drums that I played many years ago. I think a double headed drum sound more musical.

I always thought the smaller the stick the faster I could play and you donít have to work as hard. LOL!! So I used the small Jazz style stick for years. While playing in big dance halls un-micíed I started using the new Regal Tip sticks for better cymbal projection. Back in those days while playing, little pieces of plastic was flying all over the stage. So I changed brands, I believe all brands good now days.

So who needs speed when you are just playing standard songs? I started experimenting and found out that when using larger sticks and playing with finesse I could get a nicer musical tone from the toms. The weight of the stick actually helps to activate the drum heads with a light touch.

Drum Stick size really varies for me. Four sizes from thin Jazz style to just a little smaller than a 5A size stick and I prefer round wood tips, they seem to respond better from all angles of the stick. I tune my sticks to the room and crowd size. LOL!! By using a Russ Miller Grove Wedge (See web site below); depending on the cross stick sound, I will use the size stick that sounds the best.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/accessories/wedges/rmgw_groove-wedge/?mode=model

I never liked the sound of cross stick on rims, the Grove Wedge has a nice woody tone, and I recommend it. The sound cuts through the band very well.

sherm


StillKicken edited on Feb 23, 2013 6:34 PM

K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System
OldFart

Mapex



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No. 6 Posted on Feb 23, 2013 10:34 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I had a kit with Single-headed Toms (Concert Toms). The Basses were played with Batter and Resonator heads, and the Floor Tom had both heads. But three of the Up Toms were Concert Toms (with no hardware provisions for the Resonator head).

I agree with sherm. Complete Toms are more appealing to me. I tried a few ways to approach the Concert Toms to bring out a rounder tone to come as close as I could to a Tom with Batter and resonator heads; and found what I considered the best head for the job (at that time) was a Remo Pinstripe. Also tried Evans heads, including Hydraulics. Although the Hydraulics sounded good, initially, they stretched easily and sounded quite flat in just a matter of a few hours of fairly vigorous playing. Their coated single-ply head didn't fare much better.

Remo Clear Controlled Sound helped, and were an excellent second choice; being durable and were able to draw out pretty good tone. Pinstripes, however, really seemed to be a cut above those others. Never tried Aquarian heads on those Toms so I can't give any input regarding that brand in that role. Also, I was playing mostly Rock-oriented music.


OldFart edited on Feb 23, 2013 10:38 PM

Mapex Saturn * Paiste
Terry Bozzio Single-Ply Coated
moneyowen





Posts: 2370
Joined: Mar 31, 2005
No. 7 Posted on Feb 24, 2013 7:30 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I knew single headed toms would come back into style sooner or later. As soon as someone in the public eye did it. And that has happened with Taylor Hawkins single headed Gretsch kit. They even had it an NAMM this year. SO probably more will follow. In the 70's when multi track recording became popular (possible) and guys decided they needed a mic on each tom, they started taking the bottom heads off in order to stick a mic up in the shell. Drummers, being drummers, saw this, and followed suit. I was included in this as around 1974 I promptly removed the bottom heads and discovered a different sound. Also, just as promptly, misplaced the rims and tension rods for good, As well as tore up the bottom bearing edges. Oh well. Haven't done it since, and am not likely to. From the drum seat, it implies a little more volume and projection. To me it also takes away a lot of the complexity of the drum sound, and doesn't really improve on it. I prefer 2 properly tuned heads

(Click the picture to view the original one)



OldFart

Mapex



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No. 8 Posted on Feb 24, 2013 10:16 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
moneyowen wrote:
I knew single headed toms would come back into style sooner or later. As soon as someone in the public eye did it. And that has happened with Taylor Hawkins single headed Gretsch kit. They even had it an NAMM this year. SO probably more will follow. In the 70's when multi track recording became popular (possible) and guys decided they needed a mic on each tom, they started taking the bottom heads off in order to stick a mic up in the shell. Drummers, being drummers, saw this, and followed suit. I was included in this as around 1974 I promptly removed the bottom heads and discovered a different sound. Also, just as promptly, misplaced the rims and tension rods for good, As well as tore up the bottom bearing edges. Oh well. Haven't done it since, and am not likely to. From the drum seat, it implies a little more volume and projection. To me it also takes away a lot of the complexity of the drum sound, and doesn't really improve on it. I prefer 2 properly tuned heads


Nicely said ( " ... complexity of the drum sound ... " ). I fully agree.

Boy, what a lovely kit in that picture ( I'm partial to that color on the shells off-set by that finish on the hardware ) -

I'll stop here, knowing this is overkill, but these pics show another famous person's kit which goes heavy on Concert Toms, and shows mic placement.


OldFart edited on Feb 24, 2013 10:23 AM

Mapex Saturn * Paiste
Terry Bozzio Single-Ply Coated
SnareNumber4

Music > Life



Posts: 12
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Location: Barberton, Ohio
No. 9 Posted on Feb 25, 2013 6:39 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
My biggest problem is that I can't tune reso heads for my life. Being in a starting band, and a teenager doesn't provide many chances for money. With our show money we take turns getting gear, and my last turn I got Ambassadors for my new kit. So I put everything on and tuned all around and they sounded OKAY. I still ended up with bad overtones. I was looking into a drumdial, but like I said, no $$$. Any Tips?


technique2012





Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 11, 2012
Location: Illinois, USA
No. 10 Posted on Feb 25, 2013 6:53 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
SnareNumber4 wrote:
My biggest problem is that I can't tune reso heads for my life. Being in a starting band, and a teenager doesn't provide many chances for money. With our show money we take turns getting gear, and my last turn I got Ambassadors for my new kit. So I put everything on and tuned all around and they sounded OKAY. I still ended up with bad overtones. I was looking into a drumdial, but like I said, no $$$. Any Tips?

Moon Gel or Evans Rings. Saves a lot of trouble.



"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple."
-Charles Mingus
moneyowen





Posts: 2370
Joined: Mar 31, 2005
No. 11 Posted on Feb 26, 2013 9:47 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Well we all go through that, learning to tune our instrument, being a broke young guy. I am now a broke old guy. So there's that. You have to experiment and learn how to get the sound you are after. You may want to try 2 ply heads on the batters (Emperor, Pinstripe for example) a little less vibration/overtones. I like to tune the reso heads a little tighter than the batter. Some guys swear they have to be equal. It all works. There isn't any secret, you just have to figure it out. What works for you may not be what works for someone else. And you aren't locked into anything once you do decide on it


pgdrums





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No. 12 Posted on Mar 2, 2013 8:34 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Concert toms definitely are easier to tune, so they're actually a decent place to start for someone just learning to tune drums. Tuning is a struggle for all of us until we learn the skill through trial and error, and concert toms can be a good baby step.

But once they've learned to stop pulling their hair out each time they try to tune the drums, most people will prefer to have a resonant head. In addition to just sounding warmer and, in my opinion better (concert toms tend to have a more hollow sound), they also have much better response. The rebound off a properly tuned drum with two heads is just superior to the relatively more lifeless response of a concert tom. For those drummers who, like me, rely on this rebound for some of their faster and more interesting fills, concert toms just don't cut it.

Maybe that's much my crutch. I guess we all have our baby steps.




seeitshimmer





Posts: 130
Joined: Sep 2, 2007
No. 13 Posted on Mar 11, 2013 6:28 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Tuning is definitely a personal thing, but I used to just grab the guitarists tuner, and tune my drums to a specific chord. I think the difference between the center of the drum, and the rim was about 1/3 lower. So, I would evenly tighten all of the lugs, and keep track of where each one was by tapping hard enough to produce a tone. I would pick that tone up with the tuner, and keep tuning up until I got to 1/3rd below the note I was targeting. The middle of the head should be the note I was looking for then.

If you go past it, make sure that you go below it, and tune it up from there.

I'm pretty sure I got that tip years ago on this forum, but it works really well. Also, don't tell the bass player the notes you are turned to. If he plays them on his bass it will make your heads vibrate very intensely.



SnareNumber4

Music > Life



Posts: 12
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Location: Barberton, Ohio
No. 14 Posted on Mar 11, 2013 11:34 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I finally put bottom heads on my kit, and although I'm not vey good with tuning them, the sound is better.
I recently picked up some neon orange zildjian sticks, and they sound pretty good, but leave an orange mark on my snare head.



technique2012





Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 11, 2012
Location: Illinois, USA
No. 15 Posted on Mar 11, 2013 12:41 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
SnareNumber4 wrote:
I recently picked up some neon orange zildjian sticks, and they sound pretty good, but leave an orange mark on my snare head.

I ruined brand new drum heads on the first day I got Questlove signatures (epic black grip that marks up drum heads). Colored sticks aren't exactly ideal if you want your drum set to have a top notch appearance.



"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple."
-Charles Mingus
OldFart

Mapex



Posts: 6655
Joined: Apr 2, 2007
Location: Peoria, AZ
No. 16 Posted on Mar 11, 2013 12:46 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
SnareNumber4 wrote:
I finally put bottom heads on my kit, and although I'm not vey good with tuning them, the sound is better.
I recently picked up some neon orange zildjian sticks, and they sound pretty good, but leave an orange mark on my snare head.


That's why I don't purchase and use Zildjian sticks.

Most of the Zildjian sticks available to me have been through stores catering to drummers who want that sort of thing. The ones that caused the marks were Black. I had ( and still have ) Coated heads on my Toms - at that time I was trying Coated Emperors for Batters (got the sticks thrown in at no charge because I bought heads for my four Toms). New Coated heads with black marks directly after putting them on really irked me.

I won't mind playing natural wood Zildjian sticks, but couldn't find any at that time. Subconsciously, that event put the brand on the bottom of the list. Very annoying ...



Mapex Saturn * Paiste
Terry Bozzio Single-Ply Coated
technique2012





Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 11, 2012
Location: Illinois, USA
No. 17 Posted on Mar 11, 2013 2:28 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
OldFart wrote:
I won't mind playing natural wood Zildjian sticks, but couldn't find any at that time. Subconsciously, that event put the brand on the bottom of the list. Very annoying ...

Every company has a couple nasty models, but I think Zildjian sticks are still high quality. I specifically like their laminated birch models like the heavy jazz stick, which actually serves quite well as either as a big band stick or concert band snare stick.



"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple."
-Charles Mingus
arivera3





Posts: 2
Joined: Apr 6, 2013
Location: Knoxville
No. 18 Posted on Apr 6, 2013 10:38 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I've found that my favorite sound comes from an Emperor Batter, Pinstripe Reso, and Vater 5B's.


Rrrraaack doon chack-a-doon boom.
StillKicken





Posts: 2315
Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Location: Buda, Texas
No. 19 Posted on Apr 7, 2013 11:54 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
arivera3; welcome to the forum, hope you like it here!!!

Tell us a little about your self and drums, music, etc. if you wish.

sherm



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System
technique2012





Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 11, 2012
Location: Illinois, USA
No. 20 Posted on Apr 7, 2013 12:29 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
StillKicken wrote:
arivera3; welcome to the forum, hope you like it here!!!

Tell us a little about your self and drums, music, etc. if you wish.

sherm

arivera3, no worries on this forum. Nobody here bites. Big Smile



"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple."
-Charles Mingus
StillKicken





Posts: 2315
Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Location: Buda, Texas
No. 21 Posted on Apr 7, 2013 1:39 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
arivera3 wrote:
I've found that my favorite sound comes from an Emperor Batter, Pinstripe Reso, and Vater 5B's.


Interesting combination, I like it when someone comes up with something different and usable for whatever reason.

sherm



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System
arivera3





Posts: 2
Joined: Apr 6, 2013
Location: Knoxville
No. 22 Posted on Apr 7, 2013 8:18 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Thanks for the warm welcome everybody!

I've been drumming for a little over 11 years, and I prefer to play Rock (similar to Queens of the Stone Age and Jak X). My main kit is a set of Ludwig Rockers.

I also do a LOT of drum restoration, mostly Slingerland and Ludwig.

Someday I will have enough dough to afford a DW kit.



Rrrraaack doon chack-a-doon boom.
StillKicken





Posts: 2315
Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Location: Buda, Texas
No. 23 Posted on Apr 7, 2013 8:47 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
arivera3 wrote:
My main kit is a set of Ludwig Rockers.



WoW!! Although I'm not a Rock Drummer, I also own a set of Ludwig Rockers, mid 90ís; 4 spurs on the 22Ē bass with small Classic lugs. Purchased used early í95, the set was mostly stored, hardly played. It came with 4 toms, 13, 14, 16 and 18, all rack mounted plus a 14Ē Supra snare.

Iíve been told they are 100% maple but Iíve heard stories that they are not really all maple; what can you tell me about them?

sherm



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System

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