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Poster Found nice Premier Drum set
StillKicken





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No. 1 Posted on Apr 7, 2012 6:30 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
About a week or so ago I found a nice Premier Drum set at a pawn shop in Austin. The nice thing about it was it was the same color as my Ludwig set, Cherry finish. They had a price tag of $499.00 for five drums. The really nice thing about it was it had a 20" bass drum. The toms were 10", 12", and 14" and there was a 5 or 6" x 14" snare.

I thought, wow I could have a practice kit at home, I could leave my 22" Ludwig bass at home and use the 20" Premier for gigs.

First problem, no one knows the model number and there were no serial numbers so I don't know what type wood I was looking at although the set looked very professional.

Second problem, I was about to offer $200 for the set, so I started looking a little closer. Most of the hardware bolts and lug screws were rusty with some corrosion then I saw the inside of the bass. At the bottom front area there was mold; bummer. I also noticed some mold inside the 14" tom, another bummer.

Disappointed; I walked away and never look back.

Sherm Sad



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System
paul

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No. 2 Posted on Apr 7, 2012 9:08 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
That's too bad, but good job making a careful inspection. You could have been very sorry.


The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely preferable to the presence of those who think they've found it. - Terry Pratchett

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StillKicken





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No. 3 Posted on Apr 11, 2012 9:34 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
YES, I was lucky.

There was no head on the reso side so it was easy to spot. If there had been a coated head mounted I would not have been able to see the problem until a later time. Although the rusted lug bolts was an indicator I was thinking maybe the set was just stored in a garage and I can replace the bolts.

The only other indicator was being able to see through a clear reso head on the 14" floor tom. All the other drums looked to be in good shape.

I guess the moral of this story is; when buying used and/or from a pawn shop, take it apart to inspect it inside and out before buying.

Sherm



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System
moneyowen





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No. 4 Posted on Apr 12, 2012 5:36 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Premier has made a lot of drums through the years. Some are real nice, others are like most of the budget stuff. The mold? I don't know. Didn't see it. Some corrosion on bolts and stuff may not be a deal breaker. Stuff can be cleaned up. If these had reinforcing rings they could be worthy to fix up. Thin birch shells with beech reinforcing rings, especially with the low profile die cast hoops, they could be real nice. They made a lot of drums this way up to and including the Signia and Genista lines and the time when they were owned by Yamaha. Even before that, they had Resonator and RegulatorStupid lines, which were cool (80's) Prior to that, be careful that modern heads will fit, because their real old lines (60's into the 70's?) used metric sized heads. Still available, but not so easy to get.
The badges should say 'made in England' although no serial numbers? seems a little odd. Unless they are older. The post Yamaha ownership period, post Signia/Genista, they get a little more generic. The XPK and APK were budget lines and can easily be ID'd because the shell interiors are painted black. They (Premier) even made Yamaha's 'Power V' models in England.
If they were the older ones with cast hoops and re rings, may be worth $200 to fix up. If they were XPK's in pristine shape, may be worth $200. They made another line with some odd indonesian wood, unfinished interiors which were ok. I had a set of these which I have since sold, in a zippy purple wrap, no suspension mounts and the long lugs (which I like, see photo) these were very clean and would be a steal for $200. I believe the XPK/APK had suspension mounts (not sure) but for sure had black interiors. I think my purple set was older. Anyway, not much help. Maybe if they are still there..? I like fooling with old drums. As long as they are round, they should play ok.

(Click the picture to view the original one)



OldFart

Mapex



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No. 5 Posted on Apr 12, 2012 6:20 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Hey Money - Great picture Thumbs up It's even clearer when you click on the pic to see it as a stand-alone ... nice kit.

Yeah, I wanted an XPK back in the 90's for myself. I thought they were among the better low-rent kits around. They had that sandwich shell of Birch-Eucalyptus-Birch. I thought they were an all around pretty cool kit, dollar-for-dollar.

I was within days of obtaining a five-piece package, including Premier stands, for my son when my brother came driving up to the house with a Pearl Export as a birthday gift for him. As I mentioned, I much preferred the Premiers, but who's to look a gift horse in the mouth?

My brother didn't even call to get an opinion and he was talked-into a set of stands to go with the drums which were thin-walled crud, and that made using the Exports a royal pain. So that, perhaps unfairly, lowered my opinion of Pearl Exports even more.


OldFart edited on Apr 12, 2012 6:24 AM

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moneyowen





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No. 6 Posted on Apr 12, 2012 11:08 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Pearl led the way w export and decent mid level kits. I typically would have chosen something else too. Although Pearl did do a nice job overall. And they did refine and improve them through the years. The old ones concentrated on just LOOKING like pro gear. I don't have much love for their older budget hardware either. I had several pieces rattle to bits in my trap case.

.



StillKicken





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No. 7 Posted on Apr 14, 2012 2:25 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I was in the area this morning and stopped for another look. They let me take the 12” tom to the drum shop down the street. We took the bottom head off and it was bad. The wood layers were beginning to separate. That tom and bass drum were the only two with visible mold. I was hoping it may be only surface mold but that was not case.

We think the wood is probably birch; unfinished inside and no support rings. They are a little heavy for their size and feel like quality drums.

Money – They are the same configuration as your picture except the lugs are the real small almost like a round ball with a simple design cut in. Tom mounting and bass mount is the same and the bass spurs were heavy duty folding type. Even the 14” was rack mounted. All the batter heads were Remo Coated Ambassador, I did not look at the reso head brand it may have said Premier. The bass drum reso head had the Premier logo across the top but at the bottom there was a logo; I think said something like Play Ever....I’m not sure.

Nice looking little set; almost heart breaking.

Sherm



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System
OldFart

Mapex



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No. 8 Posted on Apr 14, 2012 7:45 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
StillKicken wrote:
I was in the area this morning and stopped for another look. They let me take the 12” tom to the drum shop down the street. We took the bottom head off and it was bad. The wood layers were beginning to separate. That tom and bass drum were the only two with visible mold. I was hoping it may be only surface mold but that was not case.

We think the wood is probably birch; unfinished inside and no support rings. They are a little heavy for their size and feel like quality drums.

Money – They are the same configuration as your picture except the lugs are the real small almost like a round ball with a simple design cut in. Tom mounting and bass mount is the same and the bass spurs were heavy duty folding type. Even the 14” was rack mounted. All the batter heads were Remo Coated Ambassador, I did not look at the reso head brand it may have said Premier. The bass drum reso head had the Premier logo across the top but at the bottom there was a logo; I think said something like Play Ever....I’m not sure.

Nice looking little set; almost heart breaking.

Sherm


Premier's heads, as I recall, were called EverPlay. But I'm not bettin' on my memory.

But just from the sound of your description, these might've been Premier Genista. That line had lugs with a WW1 hand grenade look to 'em.


OldFart edited on Apr 14, 2012 7:49 PM

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Singlestroker





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No. 9 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 1:35 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
It’s always a great shame when good drum gear gets ruined like that.

I think they must have been Premier Genista, as Randy suggests. The original Genista range had “Big P” Premier badges. If they had been Premier Artist, which succeeded the Genista, and which also had lugs that broadly fit Sherm’s description, then they would have been clearly identified on the badges as either “Premier Artist Birch” or “Premier Artist Maple”. The badges would also have been oval, and nothing like the “Big P” Premier badges that so many of us had come to know and love.

You were right, Randy: Everplay was Premier’s head brand until Remo bought the rights to it. The brand was still fitted to new Premier drumkits up to 2004 to my knowledge, and it may still be.

By the way, the Genista range has now been reintroduced – complete with “Big P” badges. Premier is trying to revive its fortunes after the latest occasion in administration. The only thing is that the Genista range is now manufactured in the Far East, which was apparently what led the Artist range to fare rather less well.

Assumptions about Far Eastern drums are probably a little bit irrational. OK, they can build down to a price, but they can also produce gear that stands up there with anything anyone else has to offer. I have a Premier Artist kit, as well as a Stagg Jia kit, the latter of which is not only made in the Far East, but is a Far Eastern brand. Both are made very, very well. However, the Artist range is not greatly sought-after, and you’d have a job to convince anyone that the Stagg is more than a cheap starter kit – unless they had a look at it close up and played it! The metalwork is so beautifully made, you’d compare it with the like of 1960s Slingerland; and the rest of the construction is of similar quality.

We humans are strange creatures, though. I would still be reluctant to air my Stagg kit in public. It's brand snobbery, and it's ridiculous!



moneyowen





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No. 10 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 5:29 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
These are Genistas (in my pic). They indeed have been reintroduced. All birch. Aside from Artist Maple and Signia, most Premier drums are birch or birch/beech combo. In addition to XPK which were Falkata like Randy mentioned.

I have zero stigma with 'overseas' drums. Like anything else, some is done rather well, and some is just cheap. I have a set of Mapex drums, since discontinued (I forget the name) which I take out anywhere. It's a bop kit (18" bass) the build quality is great. They don't have the punch or tone of my US Gretsch kit, especially the bass drum. But literally cost about 10% of what Gretsch charges. They get done overseas due to labor and material cost, and sometimes something gets cut somewhere along the line. There is good and there is bad. Export marketed for years with the idea that they were the same or 'just as good' which they weren't. Not quite. They featured ads with prominent stars with Exports, which they didn't use. That sort of rubs me the wrong way. Misleading and confusing, intentionally. Especially to younger players. Seems like dirty pool. The snobbery can go both ways, as drum brands made overseas (by Taye and Mapex factories, for the most part) get stickered with a brand name that has not much to do with the instrument, aside from the sticker. But the player can say 'oh yeah, it's (Gretsch, Ludwig, Sonor or whatever)' ANyways, I'm not too snobby, but that has always bugged me.

I read somewhere that if Ipad was manufactured in the US, the list price would be nearly $11,000. We Americans decided on this in the 1970s, labor costs, unions and such. As a result, US doesn't manufacture much these days. I'm no expert, but I believe a lot of that is why we are in such a predicament these days, economically. We voted with our wallets



Tommy says: "I would never play anything besides Pearl, especially the Exports". Yeah, right. This is an actual ad, but seems farcical and over the top. "*&%$ the rest" oh sure, Tommy

(Click the picture to view the original one)


moneyowen edited on Apr 15, 2012 5:39 AM

Singlestroker





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No. 11 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 6:14 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Yes, MO, of course: photographs are the best way to illustrate these things! Just to complete the picture, I've attached a picture of an Artist snare drum that shows the different lugs.

I agree with you regarding misleading advertisements. No doubt, a lot of beginners would in any case still go for a new, cheaper kit rather than opt for a secondhand, better one. However, the manufacturers shouldn't be pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

What you say about the US applies to the UK also. I guess we all pay with home jobs in the end as we come to accept foreign good, just as we quickly did when we found how good Japanese cars were.


Singlestroker edited on Apr 15, 2012 6:24 AM

OldFart

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No. 12 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 10:52 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Singlestroker wrote:
Yes, MO, of course: photographs are the best way to illustrate these things! Just to complete the picture, I've attached a picture of an Artist snare drum that shows the different lugs.

I agree with you regarding misleading advertisements. No doubt, a lot of beginners would in any case still go for a new, cheaper kit rather than opt for a secondhand, better one. However, the manufacturers shouldn't be pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

What you say about the US applies to the UK also. I guess we all pay with home jobs in the end as we come to accept foreign good, just as we quickly did when we found how good Japanese cars were.


That's one lovely drum.

Being a Keith Moon fan from back in the day, I'll always hold dear Premier.



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StillKicken





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No. 13 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 11:19 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Singlestroker wrote:
Yes, MO, of course: photographs are the best way to illustrate these things! Just to complete the picture, I've attached a picture of an Artist snare drum that shows the different lugs.


Good information guys. I don't know how people keep up with so many changes in the drum industry and Premier seemed to have their share.

The lugs are more like Singlestroker's photo of the blue snare although the badge is the "P" label in Money's photo. I've got to get my friend to come over and show me how to send pictures. LOL!! I'm a dummy when it comes to computers.

Oh and BTW, OF, I think you are right the head logo was EverPlay.

Sherm



K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple System
OldFart

Mapex



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No. 14 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 11:54 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
moneyowen wrote:
These are Genistas (in my pic). They indeed have been reintroduced. All birch. Aside from Artist Maple and Signia, most Premier drums are birch or birch/beech combo. In addition to XPK which were Falkata like Randy mentioned.


Love the finish, the drums and the trappings. Genistas were a Grand bit of drum-tech.







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Singlestroker





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No. 15 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 12:17 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
StillKicken wrote:... The lugs are more like Singlestroker's photo of the blue snare although the badge is the "P" label in Money's photo...


Ah, yes! Got it! I was forgetting some drums that had the same lugs as the Artist range, before they temporarily ceased using the "Big P" badges. The XPK range had those lugs at that time, although, when they first came out, they had the ones shown earlier on the thread in MO's photograph.

So, there it is, Sherm: they were XPKs. As you say, they chopped and changed a bit over quite a short period.

Another couple of things I forgot: First, the later versions of the Premier Cabria - a really low-budget range - also had the Artist lugs. Second, the now-discontinued Premier Series range(that's Premier Sries made by Premier - confusing, isn't it?) had what appear to be the same lugs as the Genista range.



Singlestroker





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No. 16 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 2:04 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
How my memory fails me these days! If it had a lacquer finish, it was an XPK, but if it had a wrap, then it was an APK kit.


OldFart

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No. 17 Posted on Apr 15, 2012 4:04 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Singlestroker wrote:
How my memory fails me these days! If it had a lacquer finish, it was an XPK, but if it had a wrap, then it was an APK kit.


I was going to say that same thing, but feared I'd be contributing confusion. But this is the distinction between the two.

I believe the APK line eventuated into the Cambria series. Cambria being a bit easier on the ears as far as marketing goes. Mind you, my memory has its own life; therefore I endeavor to stand aloof from it and disavow any knowledge of his dealings in public Smile


OldFart edited on Apr 15, 2012 4:09 PM

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No. 18 Posted on Apr 16, 2012 1:26 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
OldFart wrote:
... I believe the APK line eventuated into the Cambria series...Smile
You may be broadly right, Randy (although please note the correct spelling). I don’t have the catalogues, so I can’t be sure. What I do know is that early Premier Cabrias were nicely built, and had “Big P” badges as well as 1960s/70s-style lugs like those in MO’s XPK photograph. Later ones, probably mid-90s to mid 2000s, were the poorest-quality Premier drums I have ever seen. They had the thin, fragile wrap that you’d find on the cheapest of all Far-Eastern starter kits, and the shells were of very cheap plywood. They had range-specific Premier badges that resembled no others.

Now that Premier are revived once again, the Cabrias are marketed as Cabria APK and Cabria XPK. They have the Artist-style lugs and “Big “P” badges. I am told that they are respectable-quality drums, unlike the rock-bottom-quality ones that I mentioned, to which, IMHO, Premier should never have lowered itself – especially not using the same lug-design as for a better range.


Singlestroker edited on Apr 18, 2012 12:20 AM

OldFart

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No. 19 Posted on Apr 17, 2012 4:20 PM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Singlestroker wrote:
You may be broadly right, Randy (although please note the correct spelling). I don’t have the catalogues, so I can’t be sure. What I do know is that early Premier Cabrias were nicely built, and had “Big P” badges as well as 1960s/70s-style lugs like those in MPO’s XPK photograph. Later ones, probably mid-90s to mid 2000s, were the poorest-quality Premier drums I have ever seen. They had the thin, fragile wrap that you’d find on the cheapest of all Far-Eastern starter kits, and the shells were of very cheap plywood. They had range-specific Premier badges that resembled no others.

Now that Premier are revived once again, the Cabrias are marketed as Cabria APK and Cabria XPK. They have the Artist-style lugs and “Big “P” badges. I am told that they are respectable-quality drums, unlike the rock-bottom-quality ones that I mentioned, to which, IMHO, Premier should never have lowered itself – especially not using the same lug-design as for a better range.


Right, apologies for the additional 'm'. Smile

If memory serves, though, the 1990's were the post-Yamaha period. I don't "know" what their condition was at the time, but word of mouth suggested they were somewhat depleted trying to buoy themselves alone. But again, that's word of mouth (from an untested someone behind the counter at a music shop).



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Singlestroker





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No. 20 Posted on Apr 18, 2012 12:29 AM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
OldFart wrote:
Right, apologies for the additional 'm'. Smile

If memory serves, though, the 1990's were the post-Yamaha period. I don't "know" what their condition was at the time, but word of mouth suggested they were somewhat depleted trying to buoy themselves alone. But again, that's word of mouth (from an untested someone behind the counter at a music shop).


Thanks, Randy.

Speaking of additional letters, I wrote “MPO in my last post where I meant put one in when I meant MO (moneyowen). Apologies for any confusion; I have now edited it.

The ending of Yamaha’s interest in Premier is significant in another way. When Yamaha withdrew was when Premier stopped using the double-ended 1960s-80s lugs in favour of separate, rounded, lugs of the kinds discussed on here so far.

You’re right, of course, to mention that Yamaha had left at that time. It is easy for me to pontificate on what Premier should then have done. Of course only the company knew the whole situation that faced them at the time.



OldFart

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No. 21 Posted on Apr 18, 2012 6:19 AM Profile | PM | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Singlestroker wrote:
Thanks, Randy.

Speaking of additional letters, I wrote “MPO in my last post where I meant put one in when I meant MO (moneyowen). Apologies for any confusion; I have now edited it.

The ending of Yamaha’s interest in Premier is significant in another way. When Yamaha withdrew was when Premier stopped using the double-ended 1960s-80s lugs in favour of separate, rounded, lugs of the kinds discussed on here so far.

You’re right, of course, to mention that Yamaha had left at that time. It is easy for me to pontificate on what Premier should then have done. Of course only the company knew the whole situation that faced them at the time.


Having mentioned the logo appearing on their wares: I liked most the script Premier that would appear on bass drum resonant heads from the factory. I don't know where that logo got started - whether it was new or a revival of one from a previous era - I'm just fond of it.


OldFart edited on Apr 18, 2012 6:22 AM

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Mendell





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No. 22 Posted on Apr 19, 2012 7:24 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
well I have a set on genista, the same green as MO posted, but without the rims systems. It really is a great sounding kit, and I paid not much (around the price of a starter kit), but they are detuning like... like nothing I've had before, it's really bad.


Gretsh Renown Maple 10, 12, 14 and 16 toms, 22 bass drum, Yamaha, Spaun and Pork Pie snares. DW 9002 and Iron Cobra Powerglide double pedals. Many cymbals, here it is:

millerpils





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No. 23 Posted on Sep 20, 2012 2:15 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Hey guys,

I read all of the above posts with interest. I acquired a Premier kit in fantastic condition not so long back. It's my first kit and I've started changing some skins etc trying to get it to sound a little sweeter.

I wonder if any of you could be kind enough to identify anything about the kit? It's a Cabria, but that's all I know - there's nothing more on it.

The config is:

20" bass drum
6"x14" snare (might even be 5")
8"x10" tom
9"x12" tom
11"x14" tom

Attached a pic of the logo on the small 10" tom. Also an early pic of it set-up when I got it:



(Click the picture to view the original one)



millerpils





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No. 24 Posted on Sep 20, 2012 2:21 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
I'm interested to know if it's worth changing all the heads and investing a bit of money in it, i.e. does the quality of the woods and construction justify it.

I recently upgraded the stock snare skins to a Evans Power Centre on the batter side and a Hazy 300 on the bottom. It sounds ok - not exactly what I'm after but that may have more to do with buying the wrong heads for the sound I'm after.

I'd also be interested to know what woods have been employed. It could be basswood or mahogany or something else.


millerpils edited on Sep 20, 2012 2:23 PM

millerpils





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No. 25 Posted on Sep 20, 2012 2:40 PM Profile | PM | Email | Quote | Search | Copy | Favorite
Looking closely at the tom, I can see it's 6 ply and would appear to be a composite of a couple of woods, one darker than the other.

Birch and eucalyptus is a possibility so I've read.


millerpils edited on Sep 20, 2012 3:35 PM

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