Topic: Cymbal tone and temperature

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1.Cymbal tone and temperature Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 5:24 AM

There's been a little bit of discussion of the effect of weather conditions on drums. What about temperature and cymbal sounds? I can't put any objective measure on it, but 1960s 20" and 21" Zildjian crashrides I have do both seem to sound nicer when it's warm. Similar seems to be true of my 22" Bosphorus Traditional ride and 20" Bosphorus Jeff Hamilton signature ride.

I can't decide whether it's the way I am when it's warm, or whether it's the cymbals. Has anyone looked into this more scientifically?

2.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: pwc
Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 8:08 AM

It could be related to sticks being affected more than the cymbals and that would affect the sound they produce on cymbals. Not sure but that was my immediate thought. Of course, nylon tipped sticks would not be affected .... I really do feel that it would need extreme temperature change to affect cymbals themselves.

3.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 9:45 AM

pwc wrote:It could be related to sticks being affected more than the cymbals and that would affect the sound they produce on cymbals. Not sure but that was my immediate thought. Of course, nylon tipped sticks would not be affected .... I really do feel that it would need extreme temperature change to affect cymbals themselves.


Thank you Peter. Thatís certainly an interesting thought. Like you, I find counter-intuitive that a few degrees might make the cymbal change sound very much. The sticks happen to be wood-tipped, so I wonder. I'll have a tinkle with nylon of the same size and weight when it's warm again (it's evening here right now) and see what it suggests.

4.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: pgdrums
Posted on: Jul 15, 2013 12:54 PM

I've noticed big changes in drum sound due to weather variations, but I've never noticed it with cymbals. That either means that it isn't happening with my cymbals or that my ears just aren't sensitive enough to have noticed it. Either way, whatever affect on cymbals there may be, it's nowhere near as obvious as with drums, at least in my experience.

5.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: pgdrums] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: pwc
Posted on: Jul 15, 2013 8:27 PM

There is also the possibility that sound waves themselves are in some way affected by the variances in humidity and ambient temperature of the surrounding air. But whether that is noticeable by our ears is something else.

6.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: pwc] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: RvJim
Posted on: Jul 16, 2013 4:40 AM

pwc wrote:
There is also the possibility that sound waves themselves are in some way affected by the variances in humidity and ambient temperature of the surrounding air. But whether that is noticeable by our ears is something else.


The humidity does not have a great effect on particle transport; however, whether or not it is raining does (and we don't tend to play our drums in the rain, I prefer mine dry personally). So I presume that humidity alone has little effect on sound. That said, the temperature of the medium greatly effects the speed of sound and therefore in extremes may make a noticeable difference.

I would suggest that cymbals are less effected by a change in temperature because they are a dense solid. However, a drum has the cavity which will be influenced by temperature and the synthetic material that the skin is made from will also be somewhat sensitive to temperature (a change in temperature likely will lead to a change in surface tension)-- and perhaps the material may also be sensitive to moisture, although I doubt it at any reasonable levels.

That is my speculation anyway.

7.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jul 16, 2013 6:46 AM

Trying out nylon tips, I found a similar difference between a relatively colder and hotter days. Bearing in mind the number of variables that would require special equipment to measure them - and some may not really be measurable anyway - it's likely that I'll never get to the bottom of this. In addition to factors that others have suggested, there is, of course, the effect of different temperatures on my hearing and perception.

8.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: RvJim
Posted on: Jul 16, 2013 8:07 PM

Singlestroker wrote:
Trying out nylon tips, I found a similar difference between a relatively colder and hotter days. Bearing in mind the number of variables that would require special equipment to measure them - and some may not really be measurable anyway - it's likely that I'll never get to the bottom of this. In addition to factors that others have suggested, there is, of course, the effect of different temperatures on my hearing and perception.


I doubt that you'd hear a difference with temperature -- in terms of the sound propagation. For example, an increase of about 2000 degrees Celcius will raise a 6000 Hz frequency in a small cavity to about 6800 Hz. A weather change of a few degrees would at best alter the frequecy by a Hertz or two.

I think the only thing that will change noticibly is the drum skins surface tension, which can be corrected with retuning.

9.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: RvJim] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: pwc
Posted on: Jul 17, 2013 3:55 AM

I have found that increase of positive sounds of my drums and cymbals is in direct proportion to listeners alcohol intake .... Smile

10.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: pwc] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jul 17, 2013 6:09 AM

pwc wrote:
I have found that increase of positive sounds of my drums and cymbals is in direct proportion to listeners alcohol intake .... Smile


Although I don't drink, it might depend on who I am at the time. If I'm Buddy Rich and it's hot, the cymbals sound different from when I'm Gerry Allison and it's cold.

11.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKicken
Posted on: Aug 3, 2013 4:18 AM

Singlestroker wrote:
Although I don't drink, it might depend on who I am at the time. If I'm Buddy Rich and it's hot, the cymbals sound different from when I'm Gerry Allison and it's cold.

LOL!! Well now that's a double variable. Two people at different temperatures. Oh or are you meaning playability?

Sherm Big Smile

12.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKicken
Posted on: Aug 3, 2013 6:20 AM

All of the above I feel is very true; there are so many variables.

I also noticed some differences with cymbals when the humidity suddenly changes. Itís mostly playability in my case it seems. I feel it is the wood stick that is affected and it doesnít seem to respond as it should which could change the sound of the cymbal.

There are so many variables we deal with in the drumming arena. We notice this in the way we choose our sticks. Each type feels a little different to us; the design and wood type (I use oak) can be affected by humidity in different ways. I donít know anything about the density of woods but Iím sure one type over another can be affected differently, even human beings can be affected by the way we breathy which affects our mobility. I know I know I DO need to work on that but thatís another subject.

sherm

13.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: pwc] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKicken
Posted on: Aug 3, 2013 6:27 AM

pwc wrote:
I have found that increase of positive sounds of my drums and cymbals is in direct proportion to listeners alcohol intake .... Smile

Yes that IS very true and I remember years ago (some of it I'd like to forget)....the drunker I get the better I think they think I sound.

sherm
PS: I almost didn't sign this one. LOL!!

14.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Andy
Posted on: Aug 6, 2013 6:51 PM

My drums are set up in an unheated barn. I've played them in temps ranging from the 90's and all the way down into the upper 20s' (when I was too cheap to fire up the kerosene heaters). To my ear, I don't hear a whole lot of difference due to temperature regardless of whether it's in the 90's or the 20's. What does make the difference is the room acoustics. A snare that sounds excellent in my barn studio can sound like crap on a stick in the wrong room.

15.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Andy
Posted on: Aug 6, 2013 6:51 PM

My drums are set up in an unheated barn. I've played them in temps ranging from the 90's and all the way down into the upper 20s' (when I was too cheap to fire up the kerosene heaters). To my ear, I don't hear a whole lot of difference due to temperature regardless of whether it's in the 90's or the 20's. What does make the difference is the room acoustics. A snare that sounds excellent in my barn studio can sound like crap on a stick in the wrong room.

16.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: knightcrawler
Posted on: Dec 11, 2013 7:31 PM

My drums are set up in an unheated room. I don't notice a change at all.

17.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: kudoco
Posted on: Feb 5, 2014 11:30 PM

I'm taking a guess here... maybe it has to do with the expansion and contraction of the cymbal? The density changes and so the way the waves propague

18.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Pearl57
Posted on: Feb 6, 2014 10:12 AM

Sound waves move/dissipate differently in cold weather versus warm weather.

How much this affects sound not sure but dispersion rate is definitely affected.

19.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Pearl57
Posted on: Feb 6, 2014 10:13 AM

Sound waves move/dissipate differently in cold weather versus warm weather.

How much this affects sound not sure but dispersion rate is definitely affected.

20.Re:Cymbal tone and temperature [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Pearl57
Posted on: Feb 6, 2014 10:23 AM

Sound waves move/dissipate differently in cold weather versus warm weather.

How much this affects sound not sure but dispersion rate is definitely affected.

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