Topic: Being Indecisive

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1.Being Indecisive Copy to clipboard
Posted by: knightcrawler
Posted on: Jan 17, 2013 1:37 PM

OK, I can't decide on if I want to go for a single pedal or a double pedal. I need a new pedal, badly. I used a double only once in my life and I've been mostly using single pedal. I actually like single pedal the best, helps me move, and I feel more comfy with a single pedal (not a lot of clutter, space to move the hi-hat, etc.)

For me, I only see a use for a double pedal for fills like Thomas Lang, or just metal.

Do I need a double pedal?

2.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Andy
Posted on: Jan 17, 2013 4:06 PM

I used a double pedal for years but it really never did anything for me. All I use is single pedal. Unless you're one of those guys who plays a lot of speed metal, I really don't see the need for it as a double pedal isn't all what it's cracked up to be and a single pedal is really all I ever need. On those rare occasions where I need that extra double bass drum sound, I'll place a 16" floor tom on the left side of my kit and play the "missing" double bass notes with my left hand. Works great.

Bottom line: you don't need a double bass pedal. Stick with a single.

3.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: paul
Posted on: Jan 17, 2013 5:17 PM

I use my double pedal for everything, including small group jazz gigs. There are occasions when it's set up and doesn't get used, but then it just acts as a hihat positioning device.

It gets used more in a rock setting, but I've found it an interesting tool in all kinds of jazz settings, too, and it often comes as a surprise to audience and musicians alike, usually to good effect.

That said, it sounds to me like you don't really want to use one. In that case, don't. It's not a required piece of hardware, just another tool that some find useful at different times, like a cowbell.

4.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: technique2012
Posted on: Jan 17, 2013 6:58 PM

I get all the speed and double pedal sound I need from a single, because all I use is a quick double stroke. The only reason I have doubles on my kits are because my father likes them. Unless there's an unbelievable sale, I don't see doubles as very necessary.

5.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKicken
Posted on: Jan 19, 2013 3:25 PM

Do you really need one? Maybe not, I have one because I have always wanted one and about a year ago I could not pass up a really good buy for a used Iron Cobra double.

As of today I've never used it, although last year late summer I needed to be in two places ALMOST at the same time so I setup the regular kit at the last place then went to the earlier gig with the main pedal of the double for a one hour outdoor gig with a rigged 18" tom as bass and a snare. Which got me off my rear to convert the tom to a bass drum later. I've never regretted the conversion since.

Paul likes them and I probably would too if I had time to practice. I think it could be fun.

Try finding a used one and if you don't like it you could sell it and maybe get your money back. Or sell it and buy the one you would rater have if you really like it.

sherm

6.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Pearl57
Posted on: Jan 21, 2013 6:00 AM

The thought process reminds me of people who ask why should I learn those metal or pop or latin patterns. ..I am not interested in them and will never play that style. ..

I say get a double pedal and learn to use it. ...Learn everything you can...Don't be the drummer who lost the gig because he limited his growth and potential.....

My .02 cents worth of advice.....

7.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Pearl57
Posted on: Jan 21, 2013 6:01 AM

Post is deleted

8.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: Pearl57] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKicken
Posted on: Jan 21, 2013 8:45 AM

Pearl57 wrote:
The thought process reminds me of people who ask why should I learn those metal or pop or latin patterns. ..I am not interested in them and will never play that style. ..

I say get a double pedal and learn to use it. ...Learn everything you can...Don't be the drummer who lost the gig because he limited his growth and potential.....

My .02 cents worth of advice.....


That's true!! I know I'm missing out on a number of gigs from musicians I know in my area. I don't know enough about Rock or the new Country style of playing, my main strong points are Older Country and Big Band, I would also like to know more about Jazz.

The more you know about music the better; and more doors will open up to you.

sherm

9.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: paul
Posted on: Jan 21, 2013 9:57 AM

"The more you know about music the better; and more doors will open up to you."

What Sherm said.

10.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: paul] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jan 21, 2013 2:50 PM

paul wrote:
"The more you know about music the better; and more doors will open up to you."

What Sherm said.


I agree, but I think it's more than that for many of us. I have some good friends who are happy, and have been happy for forty years, playing the same material year in, year out.

However, I, for one, like to learn as much as possible, and get as good as I possibly can at, anything I do. This desire has, so far, survived despite the fact that failing health means that a great deal of what I am working on will never be seen in a public performance.

I just love learning, and to try to meet its challenges.

11.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: OldFart
Posted on: Jan 22, 2013 10:03 AM

I owned a Double-Bass kit back another lifetime ago.

If you have it, you'll find a way to use it. It could be useful to you; it was for me. Although I never kept careful track, I only played the second Bass part of the time.

I would, however, straddle my foot over the Hat pedal and Bass pedal simultaneously with the ball and toes of the left foot on the Hat foot-board and the heel playing the Bass. Being younger and far less arthritic, I could play that way.

I learned from having the gear that playing a Hat in various ways turned out to be way more important to me than trying to roll on the Bass ... but that is useful, too. I couldn't have found that out without having a Double-Bass kit for an extended period.

You might want to purchase a Double-pedal from a reputable store which will allow returns. Trouble with that is, they'd usually give 'store credit' where you can apply the purchase price to some other equal-value goods. I bring it up because I'd hate to see you drop a significant amount on a Double-Pedal and only come to a final conclusion that it's not really 'your thing' and be out any significant amount. Carefully check the store's time limit if you chance that approach ( and remember, the gear has to be in their hands before the drop-dead date and hour).

12.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: knightcrawler
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 8:54 AM

See! That's why I'm being indecisive. I can learn metal, which includes double bass, but then that means I need to take time out of stuff I love like rock, alternative, latin, funk. Stuff I've played for years and never needed a double pedal.

The only times I used a double pedal was for grooves but I shrunk the size of my kit to just 3 toms, kick, snare, 4-6 cymbals, and other percussion toys. Which is why I was sought after.

However, I love to play, and because I'm not seeking a metal band that requires double bass, I figured what's the point? Actually, I helped start bands and played gigs because I could play stuff that most "metal" guys couldn't play.

13.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Dave
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 10:27 AM

It sounds like you're stuck on the idea that a double pedal is only used with metal. If that's what you believe, and you don't like metal, then you probably don't need one.

However, if you did get one, and realized you could use it for many things other than metal, I think you would be happy that you have it and be a better musician for being able to play it.

14.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Pearl57
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 10:33 AM

learn metal, which includes double bass, but then that means I need to take time out of stuff I love like rock, alternative, latin, funk. Stuff I've played for years and never needed a double pedal.

The only times I used a double pedal was for grooves but I shrunk the size of my kit to just 3 toms, kick, snare, 4-6 cymbals, and other percussion toys. Which is why I was sought after.

However, I love to play, and because I'm not seeking a metal band that requires double bass, I figured what's the point? Actually, I helped start bands and played gigs because I could play stuff that most "metal" guys couldn't play.


Metal is not the only style of music that a double pedal can be utilized. Almost all the music you listed has potential for double pedal usage....It doesn't have to be straight 1/8 or 1/16 note continuous patterns....

15.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: Pearl57] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: OldFart
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 11:45 AM

Pearl57 wrote:
learn metal, which includes double bass, but then that means I need to take time out of stuff I love like rock, alternative, latin, funk. Stuff I've played for years and never needed a double pedal.

The only times I used a double pedal was for grooves but I shrunk the size of my kit to just 3 toms, kick, snare, 4-6 cymbals, and other percussion toys. Which is why I was sought after.

However, I love to play, and because I'm not seeking a metal band that requires double bass, I figured what's the point? Actually, I helped start bands and played gigs because I could play stuff that most "metal" guys couldn't play.

Metal is not the only style of music that a double pedal can be utilized. Almost all the music you listed has potential for double pedal usage....It doesn't have to be straight 1/8 or 1/16 note continuous patterns....


Right - and a good point. Most of my double-bass work was devoted to patterns. I might burst a very short roll here and there, but the music I played (before Metal was very well defined) didn't call for it; and I'm not sure I would've been lured in that direction.

16.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: Dave] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 12:51 PM

Dave wrote:
It sounds like you're stuck on the idea that a double pedal is only used with metal...


It definitely has applications other than in metal. A lot of smaller British brass bands, such as my own, have a drum kit only for percussion parts. We attempt quite a lot of orchestral pieces, and these quite often include bass drum rolls. Although it's impossible to reproduce the sound of an orchestral bass drum on a kit, the ability to do the rolls is still better than just playing 8ths.

17.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Drummistic
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 1:08 PM

knightcrawler wrote:
...However, I love to play, and because I'm not seeking a metal band that requires double bass...


You have your answer right there, it is not if you need a double pedal, but more about if you want to use it.

I'm too old to make a credible heavy/trash drummer with constant use of double bass patterns, and it is not the type of music that I would find interesting (again it is me, LJ, who doesn't find it engaging, I'm NOT saying that it is not a valid music style)

A couple of years ago though, I got involved in a quite interesting project that included people from Latin America, US and Europe. One of the songs in that project made extensive use of double bass drumming, so it motivated me to get a double pedal and I learned to play it well enough to make the recording. I still have it and use it here and there, but because I find it interesting, not because I need to.

LJ

18.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Kaleidoscope
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 1:34 PM

I bought a used dw double pedal. I rarely used the double feature of it. It came in handy though. The hoop clamp screw broke off in the nut from hard use. but you can turn the slave into a single, so its like I had a backup on hand.

19.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: HuskerFan
Posted on: Jan 25, 2013 2:15 PM

Singlestroker wrote:
It definitely has applications other than in metal. A lot of smaller British brass bands, such as my own, have a drum kit only for percussion parts. We attempt quite a lot of orchestral pieces, and these quite often include bass drum rolls. Although it's impossible to reproduce the sound of an orchestral bass drum on a kit, the ability to do the rolls is still better than just playing 8ths.


What's your method for playing these bass drum rolls on the kit? I'm particularly interested in how you approach that gear-wise.

20.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: Dave] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKicken
Posted on: Jan 26, 2013 11:44 AM

Dave wrote:

If you did get one, and realized you could use it for many things other than metal, I think you would be happy that you have it and be a better musician for being able to play it.


Yes, what Dave said:

I play mostly older style Country and a little 50/60's rock and there are times when I think I could have used a double for that song. Like Paul when he plays; he probably doesn't use double on every song but he does use it.

sherm

21.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: HuskerFan] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jan 26, 2013 12:37 PM

HuskerFan wrote:
What's your method for playing these bass drum rolls...


I am not sure what you mean by "gear-wise". If you have in mind how I tune the drum (since what I use to play it is obvious - a double pedal), the answer is that I tune in in no way special.

As to how I play the rolls, I think you'll have gathered that I (and probably everyone else) cannot produce press-rolls with the pedals. I simply play single-stroke rolls as fast as possible while maintaining, the correct time and as fast as the speed of the piece will allow.

22.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: HuskerFan
Posted on: Jan 26, 2013 10:19 PM

Singlestroker wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by "gear-wise". If you have in mind how I tune the drum (since what I use to play it is obvious - a double pedal), the answer is that I tune in in no way special.

As to how I play the rolls, I think you'll have gathered that I (and probably everyone else) cannot produce press-rolls with the pedals. I simply play single-stroke rolls as fast as possible while maintaining, the correct time and as fast as the speed of the piece will allow.


I was partially interested in tuning, but I was wondering more if you use something like Vater Vintage Bomber or even old lambswool beaters to get a softer sound, more like a concert bass drum. I should have been more specific.

23.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: HuskerFan] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jan 28, 2013 1:42 AM

HuskerFan wrote:
I was partially interested in tuning, but I was wondering more if you use something like Vater Vintage Bomber or even old lambswool beaters to get a softer sound, more like a concert bass drum. I should have been more specific.


I am the sole percussionist in a small brass band, so how I have the drumkit is set up is always going to be compromise. I tried soft lambswool beaters, but found that they were too soft for many of the pieces that we play. I use 4.5cm dia. felt beaters. I can't remember what make they are, but I'd say they are medium-hard or some such. I find it better to play softly, when appropriate, with them than to try to play loudly with soft beaters.

24.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: HuskerFan] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Jan 28, 2013 2:30 PM

HuskerFan wrote:
... to get a softer sound, more like a concert bass drum.


Joshua, I apologise. I haven't been too forthcoming with my replies.

I should have said that it is always a compromise where there is only one percussionist in a British brass band because they play many different styles of music.

I should also have mentioned that, for portability and economy of space, in both our very cramped venues as far as stage space goes, as well as in my small car, I gig with an 18" bass drum. This does limit the scope for imitating a concert bass drum over and above the limitations of playing with pedals. Despite the small diameter, it is, however still possible to strike then immediately release to get a resonant note, or alternatively to strike and momentarily hold the beater on the head. This applies both to individual strokes and to rolls.

I am working on more or less corresponding techniques with the hi-hat. As you may know, imitating clash cymbals is not too difficult when it is a simple case of clash-and-let-ring. Clash and damp is a whole lot harder, but it can be done, as I've been able to do, but only in fits and starts so far.

25.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: knightcrawler
Posted on: Feb 6, 2013 12:02 PM

Lol, this sparked an interesting discussion.

I bought a new single pedal Smile Mapex Falcon

I'm just comfortable playing single pedals, and I never had to have a double kick ever.

26.Re:Being Indecisive [Re: knightcrawler] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: pgdrums
Posted on: Feb 8, 2013 7:28 AM

I have a double pedal and am glad I have it, but I'm more glad that I learned to play without it for the first 20 years or so.

I admit I'm not very good at double bass, owing to my lack of time to practice it. When I was a young kid learning to play drums, I practiced for hours on end and developed a lot of the brain synapses and technique that I still rely on today for what I hope is fairly fluid and precise playing. When I finally got around to buying a double pedal, unfortunately I just didn't have the time to devote to practicing it. As a result, it injects too much slop into my playing except on relatively basic licks, and I use it only sparingly and strategically in gig settings. When I do play double bass, I'd like to think it's to good effect, but close to half of what I now do on double bass is something I previously could do with what was at one time a much faster right foot.

I share this as background for my main point, which is this: Double bass can be a useful tool, but I believe it's secondary to a mastery of single pedal. The novelty of double bass is such that it seems a lot of young players spend all their time learning to play blisteringly fast single strokes on double bass, at the expense of learning to play anything interesting or precise with just their right foot. Putting the cart before the horse in this way is, I think, something to be avoided.

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