Topic: Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds

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1.Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Mar 11, 2014 7:48 AM

We established over on another thread that shoop is a good term for the effect when striking an open hi-hat then closing it Ė to make a ďshoopĒ sound.

What interests me is that a lot of tutorial material on this shows the drummer striking the top hi-hat cymbal not only when it is up, but also at the point when the hats close. I myself play only the first of those strokes, with the hats open, and I allow the shoop-sound to be completed by the closing of the cymbals together.

For example, in 4-4 time, if the shoop starts on the and-stroke of 4 and ends on the 1 stroke in the next bar, I do not play a stick-stroke on the 1. I play like this wherever in the bar the shoop occurs.

I just wondered how others do this.

2.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: technique2012
Posted on: Mar 11, 2014 1:21 PM

I've done it both ways. But I personally prefer a more clean-cut note wherever the shoop happens to resolve, so I tend to play on as well as off the shoop.

3.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: RvJim
Posted on: Mar 12, 2014 3:25 AM

In my playing I do a lot of subtle hi-hat work associated with when I hit the hats (on the way open or closed) and the velocity of the hats make a difference too.

4.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: RvJim] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Mar 12, 2014 3:49 PM

Thank you for the replies guys.

technique2012 wrote:
... I personally prefer a more clean-cut note wherever the shoop happens to resolve, so I tend to play on as well as off the shoop.


It's interesting to note your observation Ethan. Perhaps you are more accurate than I am in timing the hi-hat point of closure with the stick-stroke (which is more than possible!), but I find that playing the second stroke makes the job less clean and tidy, rather than more.

RvJim wrote:
In my playing I do a lot of subtle hi-hat work associated with when I hit the hats (on the way open or closed) and the velocity of the hats make a difference too.


I'd be very interested to hear you playing some of that, Jim. I myself am developing some of the skills that you mention, but given the amount of time I can put in, and my own learning rate, I have to be patient. In the meantime, I consider it a major personal achievement to be able to play this effect anywhere in a bar, and playing and co-ordinating it with almost any combination of the other three limbs, with minimal practice.

5.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: technique2012
Posted on: Mar 13, 2014 2:40 PM

Singlestroker wrote:

...I find that playing the second stroke makes the job less clean and tidy, rather than more.


It's all about the timing. And I still have the stroke and resolve of the shoop timed unevenly on several occasions. Maybe it's just that I have a compulsive need for there to be all the 8th notes...

6.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: technique2012] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Mar 13, 2014 2:59 PM

technique2012 wrote:
...And I still have the stroke and resolve of the shoop timed unevenly on several occasions.


Yes, that's the risk with playing both stick-strokes, and one that I don't consider necessary.

technique2012 wrote:Maybe it's just that I have a compulsive need for there to be all the 8th notes...


Possibly so. The reason why I don't strive to get the second stroke in is because the closing of the hats produces an 8th-note without using the stick. Both the stroke on opening the hats and on closing are always going to sound different from the others surrounding them, so I don't see what's gained by insisting on a stick-stroke on the point of closing the hats.

By the way, I don't regard the version without the closing stick-stroke to be an easy option as such. The ability to interrupt the flow of 8th-notes at the required points has itself to be learned, and it takes some doing.

I should make it clear that not for one second am I suggesting that you are wrong here. After all, people of the calibre of Jared Falk are teaching it your way, so who am I..? What I am doing is giving my own perspective, and also suggesting that the point is well worth discussing. I'm surprised that teachers don't mention it.

7.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: technique2012
Posted on: Mar 16, 2014 7:38 AM

Singlestroker wrote:

I should make it clear that not for one second am I suggesting that you are wrong here. After all, people of the calibre of Jared Falk are teaching it your way, so who am I..? What I am doing is giving my own perspective, and also suggesting that the point is well worth discussing. I'm surprised that teachers don't mention it.

I don't think there's really a wrong answer to this. You've brought up a very good point. I think that everyone has their own style. One person could say they play in the way you describe and another in the way I describe. I think it's just an individuality type of thing. Heck, Jojo Mayer just does it with his foot and nothing else!

8.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: technique2012] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Mar 16, 2014 1:36 PM

technique2012 wrote:... Jojo Mayer just does it with his foot and nothing else!


... and a lot more that I'll never come close to achieving. I had the pleasure of attending a drum clinic of his five or six years ago. Actually, why we were asked to bring practice pads, stands and sticks, I can't imagine. The "drum clinic" title was a complete misdescription, and what he really put on was a talk and a demonstration. Nonetheless, it was a chance in a lifetime. Not many can say they've studied his every move from not more than ten feet away while he played a half-hour solo.

9.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKicken
Posted on: Mar 16, 2014 5:15 PM

I do it a lot when playing Country shuffle. Itís counted e1, e2, e3, e4 and on and on with the hi-hat closed then after about four bars or so Iíll raise my foot and back down during the play making the shoop sound. Sometimes Iíll use it when there is a slight pause in the music or after a phrase in the singing.

Itís basically a feel for the music for me and just happens naturally at times without thinking about it. At the last gig I paid more attention as to how I was playing it. It seems most of the time Iím just using my foot then the stick continues after a slight pause. Also at the end of a song the guitars will do a Country run/ending when there is a pause I use it to fill the pause with my foot then stick down on the last note, I think; Iíll check tomorrow night. LOL!!

sherm

10.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: RvJim
Posted on: Mar 19, 2014 10:27 PM

Singlestroker wrote:
I'd be very interested to hear you playing some of that, Jim. I myself am developing some of the skills that you mention, but given the amount of time I can put in, and my own learning rate, I have to be patient. In the meantime, I consider it a major personal achievement to be able to play this effect anywhere in a bar, and playing and co-ordinating it with almost any combination of the other three limbs, with minimal practice.


I don't really have many examples, to be honest, of some of the trickier things I can do.

There is some older music on my website with some nice hi-hat work, but nothing overly crazy or sophisticated.

www.timothybodisco.com/music.html

Check out Saturnalia (recorded live 03/07 -- this bands first gig), Ode to Hisato (01/09), All the same (circa 04) as the best examples.

I'll try to work something into a new tune at some stage, but now a days with a family and a career I don't play as much as I'd like and my band and I write music very slowly! We've not done a proper recording in 5 years!

11.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: RvJim] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Mar 20, 2014 1:44 AM

RvJim wrote:... Check out Saturnalia (recorded live 03/07 -- this bands first gig), Ode to Hisato (01/09), All the same (circa 04)...


It's great stuff. That singer is so good, I kept forgetting to listen to the drums!

I thought that the hi-hat work was very good, tasteful and really effective. Not only that, but it was not busy for busy's sake. I know it's discussed over and over again, and that someone with your experience knows it anyway, but the temptation for a drummer to use every song prove what s/he can do has to be resisted.

I'm pleased to say that I am getting pretty close to that sort of level and quality with my own playing, including hi-hat. No doubt, the opportunities for me to use it are going to be few, given that I am in my mid-sixties and in ill health, and I play only in brass bands. However, there is nothing like having the skills there when the occasions arise.

12.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: RvJim
Posted on: Mar 20, 2014 3:55 AM

Singlestroker wrote:
It's great stuff. That singer is so good, I kept forgetting to listen to the drums!

I thought that the hi-hat work was very good, tasteful and really effective. Not only that, but it was not busy for busy's sake. I know it's discussed over and over again, and that someone with your experience knows it anyway, but the temptation for a drummer to use every song prove what s/he can do has to be resisted.

I'm pleased to say that I am getting pretty close to that sort of level and quality with my own playing, including hi-hat. No doubt, the opportunities for me to use it are going to be few, given that I am in my mid-sixties and in ill health, and I play only in brass bands. However, there is nothing like having the skills there when the occasions arise.


Thanks for the complements. It was a different singer in each song I suggested... what did you listen to?

13.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: RvJim] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Mar 20, 2014 8:21 AM

RvJim wrote:
... It was a different singer in each song I suggested... what did you listen to?


Whoops, so they are! Blush I'm pleased to say that I find both striking now I listen again and have had the difference pointed out, although it was Saturnalia that I had in mind when I made the original comment.

By the way, I haven't had a chance to listen enough get my head around the time-signature changes in Saturnalia, but I get the impression that most of it is 12-8, but 6-8 bars break it up at various intervals. Is that about right?

14.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: RvJim
Posted on: Mar 20, 2014 11:47 PM

Singlestroker wrote:
Whoops, so they are! Blush I'm pleased to say that I find both striking now I listen again and have had the difference pointed out, although it was Saturnalia that I had in mind when I made the original comment.

By the way, I haven't had a chance to listen enough get my head around the time-signature changes in Saturnalia, but I get the impression that most of it is 12-8, but 6-8 bars break it up at various intervals. Is that about right?


There are a few signatures in it from memory, but mostly 6/8 and 4/4, but a couple of little turn-arounds with odd numbers of beats. The Mesmere act had lots of tricky off time stuff going on.

15.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: Singlestroker] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: StillKickinIt
Posted on: Apr 20, 2014 6:17 PM

Not really related but I've discovered an interesting effect when playing 16th notes (r-l-r-l etc) and shooping on the hats, with a right stick to the snare on 2 and 4, I move my left stick to the bell of the hi-hat cymbal and throw a little "ding-a-ling" into my "shoop shoop" Big Smile

16.Re:Playing disco-beat "shoop" sounds [Re: StillKickinIt] Copy to clipboard
Posted by: Singlestroker
Posted on: Apr 21, 2014 10:23 AM

StillKickinIt wrote:
Not really related but I've discovered an interesting effect when playing 16th notes (r-l-r-l etc) and shooping on the hats, with a right stick to the snare on 2 and 4, I move my left stick to the bell of the hi-hat cymbal and throw a little "ding-a-ling" into my "shoop shoop" Big Smile


The scope for coming up with imaginative touches all of our own, like that,is one of the things I love about drums.

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